Narad: So we are continuing with our interview with Madhusudan and you were telling us about your field your specific field of healing

Madhusudan: The only field of medicine of medicine I find that is truly one hundred percent Sri Aurobindo's integral yoga because it takes everything into account and it is very important because medicine is too specific. So you have a heart problem, the cardiologist is looking at the heart but perhaps the origin and the cause of the problem could be a hormonal problem or it might be a problem of the spirit. The person is not happy, like I was so sick as a child because I was with the Mother. So you can treat with all antibiotics and everything but it won't solve you know. So the doctor looks into your ear but he doesn't see that there is melanoma growing here, because he is so specialized. And with this psycho neuro endocrino immunology is a science which most of my colleagues are only practicing or using in laboratory for experiments. And I said no I want to use it for working with patients and I have incredible success and Mother had told me "My child you will see what you can do", and we can transmit all this what we have learnt from Mother and Sri Aurobindo through our work through our actions. And that's why I never talk about Mother and Sri Aurobindo I give, people have asked me who come to the ashram regularly from Italy, they called me through Maurice from Berlin where I had my proactive to come to Turin to meet them because Maurice told them about me. So I went there for 4 days to meet these friends of Maurice they all come here Italians and since Maurice speaks fluent Italian they all know Maurice. And Maurice is loved all over the world. Maurice is universal love, 

Narad: Yes indeed

Madhusudan: Please remember this. Maurice is an exceptional child of the Mother. He's universal love, everybody loves him and he loves everybody now is that not Sri Aurobindo's smile? Is that not Mother's love? That is something fantastic I love him very much. He has seen the bad side of me poor fellow. He knows me, he knows my temper. And I don't speak so they ask me, that 4 days is not enough now we need to see you for medical reason consultations and so on and so forth.  So I started going once a month for a weekend and then it became five days month and then it became six days a month then it becomes twice a month then finally I opened a practice there. And so I had a practice in Berlin, I had a practice in Turin and then eventually we decided to move to Sardinia and I opened a practice there and Turin and then decided to vacate Berlin altogether and leave Germany. So I was there for about thirteen fourteen years now is Italy and only about a year ago we went back to Germany, because my wife is German and she wanted to go back home in her retirement years and she is my age so we are in Dresden. But these people created a center called Centro Mira, Center for Mind body soul and material. Mente corpo Anima et materia centro spiritual center and they called it Centro Mira, based on Sri Maa. But I told them look, you have to read Mother and Sri Aurobindo's books, they are translated in Italian, they are in English, they are in French. I cannot teach you what they have taught I don't want to, I can't I don't have the ability I don't have the capacity, I am not competent. It’s you people who have read them studied them, you can, but I can’t and I don't want to. And I never felt the need to be a master and these people wanted me to be a master and I said “look, I am master over myself and I want you to become master over yourself", and this Mother had also told me "empower your patients". And this is what I do. I awake in my patients their own ability to build up to strengthen their immune system and total health by awakening their consciousness and I am talking not of mental consciousness  or mind brain consciousness  but I am talking about this inner consciousness, perhaps Sri Aurobindo calls the psychic consciousness  of becoming aware  that they are not this body, that they are living in this body, that they are the spirit, that they are the soul and soul is life energy. And it is not when you  die that the soul  goes to god but it's when the soul goes to god your body dies because there no life in it, no energy in it. So you are that energy that is eternal, and if you become that energy just like if I see that my shirt is dirty I take it off and I put it away for washing and put on another. You do that with your body, that if your body is unhealthy you wash it or dirty you wash it if your body is unhealthy you cure it because you are the soul. And it’s your body it's your property it is your material possession in which you live. But people forget, and they consider themselves physical body and say I am sick, I say no, your body has problem. You know you are not and so my colleagues put a lot of attention on the pathology which is biological the illness it's the body. And so they are much more concerned with the illness and the pathology but they are not concerned about the cure, the important in my work with my patients is, I make them aware of the curative potential and power. And one can see virtually some people or majority who die of their illness, I find they die prematurely in other words it was a suicide because they did not understand the process and the let themselves go thinking that they are dying and they will die and they die, Self fulfilling prophecy. So even that is a suicide it is like jumping out of the window from the balcony, so if I make a prophecy that because I have cancer I am going to die that is suicide no. But why done tests, my body not me and it can never have cancer it is the body that can have and therefore I am master over body, spirit over body, mind over body. And this center I teach these things, and I work with this type of work so they ask me to give meditation every week once or every two weeks and I told them I never meditated but we can meditate I know how one should meditate because Mother explained me what it is and how it should be. And she told me it was not necessary for me and I really don’t think because my entire life is a meditation even if I am a rebel. I am a revolutionary, I am not a master I am a revolutionary, I am a rebel with a cause. But that's the way it is and I am satisfied with my life, I am the happiest man on this earth, even if you see tears in my eyes of emotions I am the happiest person and I wish humanity could understand this. 

Narad: Could we go back a little bit to your student days in the ashram? And perhaps you could share some reminiscences of the people who were special to you.

Madhusudan: Very very special to me were people like Nirod-da, very special. And he had, this is also another thing Nirod-da, I had come with a very dear Italian friend Greeda Chercho from Italy here with my wife. And I had introduced him to Nirod-da and so on. And Nirod-da had told him what Mother had told about me. So that was another reason those people adore me, because they know what Mother had said about me and so on. And with Nirod-da I had immense fantastic communication. And he used to hold once a week classes, in the sense, in his room in the evening with Manoj-da, three four other people, Vishwabandhu, Manoj-da, I forget the other name. I don't think so Batti came but this was very limited group and he asked me to come. And I’d sit in and listen and he would read from Mother and Sri Aurobindo's works and so on explain things. But I use to be there for him. And that was a very very beautiful relationship. Don't forget Nirodbaran was a great soul, not only as a spirit and person and human being but also a great medical man. Nobody knew him as a doctor, but again doctor is not only the one who cleans your wounds and puts a bandage around it or who prescribes you tablets. He was a doctor that did not need the tablet, but look nobody knows Nirodbaran in that aspect but I knew. And he knew and we had talks and he told me, my friend, he used to call me Madhusudan, you too, you know what you have to do you do it just the way you know how and don't worry about conventions. So Nirodbaran was somebody very very precious very close there was also Ravindra-ji, that I loved very dearly. I was very attached to Dada and he meant a lot to me as a older brother or elder brother, Dada means elder brother. And then the people who are not much older than me only couple of years older than me, like Batti-da, Batti-da you know Prabhkar. He is a very wise person, and I who don't like reading and don't want to know too much. Everything I know about Indian mythology and things of that sort, came through stories that Batti-da tells me when I come for my visits and so on and even in those days and so. So he doesn't speak a lot, he can write beautifully, if you see is handwriting it’s like painting. Prabhkar, you ask him to show you something he's written. He writes, and he writes beautifully.

Narad: He has just agreed to do a series with me on his articles "among the not so great".

Madhusudan: Yes, yes! You see that is one of his works and there is so much humor in it. 

Narad: Yes,

Madhusudan: And so what he doesn't speak and say and show is inside but when he then explains you things it is absolute divine and I get enchanted when I am told these stories because I see the truth, the divine truth behind mythology, what does it all mean, for instance this battle kurukshetra, where Arjuna doesn't have the strength to shoot the first arrow at his own cousins, his brothers and Sri Krishna gives him the lecture and that is the Vedas. And when I was explained this, it opened up so in my work what I am doing and so on, why it is so important that at times you have to take very radical categorical decisions in life and even if that is morally, perhaps they say, how can you take such a decision and so on, but yet where it’s wrong and right you have to be on the divine's side. So Batti-da is a very very important person, very interesting

Narad: Ah this is so, so helpful to me, to know this.

Madhusudan: Yes he has immense wisdom, behind that smile of his and his quietness there is lot more, so poke him 

Narad: Ok

Madhusudan: And provoke him, and he is very tolerant so he is very nice. So we laugh a lot, we joke and I meet him every day for breakfast. Today I told him I have to go for that I don't know what it is, it's a video interview and I don't even know why they want to do it but I’ll go. So I came and I didn't go there.

Narad: Did he tell you that he did one with me already

Madhusudan: Yes, yes yeah he told me

Narad: Very fine

Madhusudan: Also these are the people that had great great meaning to me. Manoj-da he is one of the trustees Manoj-da, you know him Manoj? 

Narad: Manoj Das Gupta

Madhusudan: Oh yes Manoj Das Gupta, these are for me the my brothers and my sisters that I adore and from whom I have learnt I can learn but now he says to me, you are teaching me, he has read things of me and he says, "Madan this is fantastic" and I would have loved to work with him. In the school and so on. But we'll see I made couple of attempts to come and he said you come and you can teach for sure but I have to stick to what Mother said and she said "one day you'll come but you have to do your work for mankind for the universe". So these are people that have great meaning, Ravindra-ji was a wonderful person that was very close to me. And then, there are other people that I admired a lot. Nolini-da, these are great sanyasis. 

Narad: Did you know Tehmi?

Madhusudan: Yes, Tehmi was my favorite teacher. 

Narad: I see

Madhusudan: Because she, I think Tehmi ben saw my philosophical aspect, my poetical, my romantic aspects in me about the language and all that. And she was very tolerant and she was very very wonderful. Tehmi ben was a very nice person. Not only that but these are, great sanyasis, these are great yogis. These people are, though why are you interviewing me you should be interviewing all those people, I am just a rebel. I don't 

Narad: We have interviewed almost two hundred so far

Madhusudan: My goodness, so that's good. I hope in those 200 some of these people are included

Narad: Well you see Noreen Singh was 92 when we interviewed him, Robi Ganguli after we did 4 interviews he passed away. So we have been able to same many of these. 

Madhusudan: I am very glad; I was very close to Robi da. Even more to Sunil-da which was 

Narad: You were 

Madhusudan: Yes, Sunil-da was our science teacher.

Narad: Please tell us about him

Madhusudan: Sunil-da was a man of science and a great man of music, and I loved music. And I think if you gave him an instrument, I am sure he could play any instrument you gave him, even if he did not know it. And he was a born musician but also a man of science, which in neurology we know that not everybody has, most people are either  very logical rational and so on they have a left hemisphere that is very strong where the logic of rationale comes from. And then the artists are those whose right hemisphere that is very strong for music for painting and so on. Because if you get a stroke in your left hemisphere and it is paralyzed, you won't be able to speak you won't be able to read, you won’t be able to even add 2 + 2, because it comes from the left hemisphere. But if you are musician you can still play with your left hand your piano, because music comes from the right side. And when the left brain is paralyzed or damaged, the right side of the body is controlled by the left hemisphere, so the right side becomes paralyzed. And the opposite, And I was lucky to find out that I have both  my hemispheres equally balanced that is why I can study science and medicine this and that and I am very musical I love playing the piano and I love to sing and I love to whistle, I used to play the harmonica. Sunil-da I loved him because of his music, I didn't have much attraction for Indian music I don't know why, perhaps the Mother had infiltrated in me, the love for Bach and Beethoven and Chopin and Mozart and do speak any Italian do you understand Italian? 

Narad: Very little 

Madhusudan: Very little, too bad. Because I have done two CDs with visualizations. Two meditations with visualizations. And you know that meditation is not just blank mind that's when you have reached a very high state you can do that but then I also wonder why. But if you visualize your meditation they are far more powerful, especially in the field of medicine it does wonders. So you can come to me with High blood pressure and in one session I can show you, you can reduce your blood pressure to absolute normal rates by doing certain visualization techniques and these are called visualized meditations with music and I talked about that because I have used music from various authors that Mother had, Greek and Chopin and so on. So I speak on those visualizations but its accompanied with music so it enhances the process, the music. And the two hemisphere of Sunil-da left and right were both well evolved, both were strong he was a man of science but he was a man of art and music. And he too always smiling and love, he was loved also.

Narad: Were you in knowledge then? Or was knowledge not there at that time.

Madhusudan: Knowledge no because not at that time no. Much earlier 

Narad: You knew Jugal 

Madhusudan: Yes, Jugal-da, is he still around or he passed away

Narad: No passed away 

Madhusudan: Oh I see, I am sorry. See I am not much in touch either I don't write so much to people here, I don't phone and my contact is as per the Mother. The Mother had said that she would always be there, when I need her I have just to call and she'll come because when I told her that I feel that everybody else is more privileged because they are here and I have to study abroad away from her. And she said to me "My child, you don't have to be here for me to be with you I am always with you, I was always with you, I am always with you, I will always be with you, whenever you come, whenever you come or not you call and I’ll be there". And to make you understand, perhaps on the video here these are not just beliefs or words of the Mother here's an example. When I first left I was a guest of a German couple, the Karnash. 

Narad: Karnash, I know him very well

Madhusudan: And, they had invited me to their home for few days and I stayed there. So I had my room and I was sort of contemplating what you others might call meditating, or whatever, just thinking of the Mother and I was there and with her, in other words I was with the Mother. Somebody knocks on the door and it was Mrs. Karnash, so I said yes. She opened the door and she says “Madhu, Madhusudan come dinner is ready”. So I went to dinner table both of them are sitting there, I was sitting at the head of the table then she says to me before we start, can I ask you please a curious question, it is a little indiscreet but I’d appreciate. I said “Sure there is nothing I consider indiscreet". She says “When I knocked and opened the door, what were you doing in your room". I said “I was contemplating, I said mediating because they would not understand what I do, because I can't even explain what I do, I said “why". She says, "I opened the door and I felt absolutely strongly that Mother was there with you”.

Narad: This is Theodora

Madhusudan: Yes, Theodora

Narad: My goodness

Madhusudan: She says, "You know I opened the door and I concretely felt that the Mother was with you, that you were with the Mother and the Mother was there with you". And then I just saw coming. And I smiled but wait a second, she could also be hallucinating. A few days later, I receive a letter from the Mother, dated for that particular day and saying, number of things that she had written, saying "and my child I was with you and I am with you". I have experienced the Mother several times and I use Mother's help for helping her children who are ill, patients. All these patients abroad, they are not ashramites but they are Mother's and Sri Aurobindo's children. And they need them and so they don't even know them perhaps. I don't see why I should talk to people about Mother and Sri Aurobindo if they don't ask me, if they are not interested and it’s not important. But if I give them Mother and Sri Aurobindo through frequencies, energies as Mother said, through occult energy then they benefit and they open their eyes and they become, they change, they change totally in their lifestyle too without my having taught them to be good or bad, I don't believe in good or bad. In the field of energy there is no dualism. There is no white and black. I am talking of the energies we use, the divine energies; you can use them for whatever purposes you want. Fire is an energy, I can use it to cook my meal, I can use it to heat my house, but I can also use it to destroy properties by laying fire, it’s not the fault of the fire. It’s how I use it. And so occult energies when used, you transform them and you apply them for their divine purpose. And sure there are anti divine energies, because there are anti divine people but then you neutralize them the power of the divine is supreme. The Pandavas defeated the Kauravas that were far far larger in size but why, because the truth always wins, the divine wins. These things I learn from Batti this Kurukshetra scene of Kurukshetra something if I am not mistaken. I think it was Batti-da who told me. So Mother is fantastic and you have the proof that these things if you know how to do it and if you, so don't be offended if I don't preach Mother and Sri Aurobindo if I don't teach Mother and Sri Aurobindo. If I don't read their books it’s not because I don't believe in them but it’s a different  way that I am with them or they are with me.

Narad: And you feel, may I ask you this? Is there any difference when you knew the physical Mother and now that she is no longer tied to the body.

Madhusudan: I’ll tell you the truth. Based on what I have experienced with her there is no difference in terms of love and energy. But I am a sentimental mush, I like to be sentimental, I want to be human I don't want to be divine I don't want to be them. And I am like a child I want to hold on to her also physically. So it would be wrong to say "no I don't miss her" and you can see already tears in my eyes because when you have been so close to your Mother and she gave you everything and she created a paradise on this earth then you miss her also physically but I am sincere in all sincerity to her that there is no difference whether you have known her physically or not. If you understand who Mother is and if you just love even if you don't understand if you just love and say “Sri Maa I love you”, you will feel something incredible just repeating. I tell my patients, I create mantras for them that is simple so when I am calming them I say, "shut your eyes, breathe deeply", so that they don't think too much you have to give them mantras but at the same time it helps them. Look this is the science of neurology that if you know how to apply it you can use it. When you use mantras what happens, you are creating energy you are evoking energy. For instance Sri Maa taught me this mantra, She says "Om namo, sri matru mira shri Aravinda sharanam mama". Beautiful mantra you repeat it and you feel this energy, but what happens what else I there something very important. The thing that works against all good and bad energies is your mind; it’s all the time thinking a human being on the average has 55 thousand thoughts a day. And every single thought is an energy. It starts between the ears the frequencies and most of these thoughts are redundant that means they produce negative effects because you are worries your bank account, you are worried about if you have time for the ashram dining room closing. These are thoughts that remember coming simultaneously when you are doing something but when you are repeating a mantra you are concentrated on the words of the mantra to repeat them. So if you give a patient a very simple mantra without talking about mantras saying "hey repeat while you are breathing deeply, breathe in breathe out and repeat in your head, I feel so good, I feel so protected, I feel so good within my own body you know, and I feel everything is secure, or repeat aaah I love, I love, I love.” And think of the person that you love, her smile the Mother's smile Sri Aurobindo's smile, or the man or woman that you love anything takes away the thoughts from the illness, the therapy and everything and he is in a state where there is now possibility for me to transmit much more healing energy. And when Mother said your hands are for healing, there are patients who virtually take my hand and put it on their body. Pancreatic cancer is one of the most painful cancers. A pancreatic patient takes my hands and puts it on him and says please because when you put your hand there I have a relief for hours without taking medication. Now, they think that I am doing miracle and I tell them no, no I am not doing any miracle you are doing the miracle because you are getting in contact with yourself, you are now not just the body but you are the soul managing the body administrating and keeping the body under control. So you are the master so you are not suffering, as a master when you are the spirit, you are omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. You know everything, you can do everything and you can be everywhere at the same time while being here. So, these are things that Mother, Mother explained to me, these are things I apply now in psycho neuro endocrino immunology. It’s unbelievable what you can do with it. And this is the idea of Mother and Sri Aurobindo so if you ask is there any difference now that Mother's physique is not here, and to me the only difference is my sentimental mush or my romantic thing and I like to be human, I want to cry, I want hold her so I also complain I also fight with them you know they have made me omnipotent, omnipresent but I want them. 

Narad: There is a beautiful poem that AE has written about that very thing that when he throws an insult at god he is talking to an angel and he says don't be so proudful angel because he says when I only remember the last line "rest the lips of the unknown tenderest upon my brow".

Madhusudan: Beautiful 

Narad: I think they give us that right 

Madhusudan: Yes, I am sorry I use perhaps a wrong word when I say "go to hell" it’s to say "leave me alone no" that's having studied in America habit of speaking like American "go to hell" no leave me in peace, I don't care I don't want to know stay away, shut up. But they are there, immune to my insults and screaming, immune to my rage but they answer and when I am angry and ask question and so on, Mother use to say, "Soit patient mon fils" be patient my child "et avec le temps tu vas comprendre parce que tu as en toi toute ce que tu as besoin de savoir" you have in you everything that you need to know.  And this is for everyone the same and I give everybody the same right the same potential the same possibility to be master over themselves because she and Sri Aurobindo have confirmed to me that they live not there but her. Because if they were there I know I have to go and find her and I can grab her but I asked, gave a conference in Dallas at Lanshire, all the prestigious people were there and there were two astronauts I forget their names, who were also invited to be there. And sitting across the table, and I asked them "hey you guys, when you out in space did you see by any chance anybody". They looked at me they knew that there was something crazy I am asking joking. What do you mean Madhusudan? I said didn't you see somebody with a beard and long hair who might look like Sri Aurobindo or like Jesus Christ. And they started laughing. I didn't say Sri Aurobindo because they don't know perhaps but Jesus Christ everybody knows. And they start laughing and they say, “Madhu are you kidding”. I say, “no, no, no I am just, I just want to make sure, I just want to make sure, I am a man of science I want to make sure that they are not up there". Because if he is here how can he be up there

Narad: There was a photo many years ago in the Hindu I believe and I happened to see it. When one of the astronauts was going around they saw one beam of light and that was directly on Pondicherry 

Madhusudan: Unbelievable 

Narad: I have not been able to find anyone who knows that photo

Madhusudan: I don't know I have not seen that, but these are marvels these are miracles and miracles do exist and I have experienced miracles in my life. And I have seen miracles, when there are patients who are condemned to die and they with their grace have made it and it’s beautiful. Hey this life is for fun, the only mission; I think Dalai Lama said, "The only reason of life is to be happy". So I have achieved, the only reason I am still living is that they want me to continue this mission. 

Narad: Thank you so much

Madhusudan: Gracie